«As a milestone of an overall counteroffensive by our faction», characterizes speaking to parapolitika.gr and the online show «Black Box», with Thanasis Fouskidis, SYRIZA MP and former minister, Nikos Pappas. He emphasizes that the next day for the Left must concern the formation of a progressive electoral alliance, which «must be implemented in three immediate, quick steps, to avoid mistakes: Manifesto, program and election of a leader, that is, a prime ministerial candidate by the people». «I believe that the processes of understanding and unification must be accelerated. This must be reflected on paper, which will be a political commitment that we will go together to the elections».
When asked if he disagrees with Tsipras’s assessments that SYRIZA’s cycle has closed, Pappas underlines that «at this moment there is the following fact. It is very difficult for anyone to convince a leftist and progressive citizen that any of the parties alone can regain such momentum that would put it on the path to power. Given this, I think there must be courage from all sides and transcendence. Mainly, we must not think for a moment that our own past concerns the people». Indeed, when it was pointed out that «tango takes two, so you are all of you and Tsipras, the two of course», Pappas commented meaningfully: «It will be a very beautiful Ikarian dance that needs many people, it won’t be tango».
Nikos Pappas: Alexis Tsipras said not only do I not regret but I am proud of our government
Specifically, regarding the impact of Tsipras’s recent event for the presentation of his book at the «Pallas» theater, Pappas said that «the impact is the reaction of conservative newspapers, where it appears they are worried about the possibility of an ideological, moral counteroffensive for the evaluation of our governance. I think this is the most important thing Alexis Tsipras does and he did it in a cohesive way». «Alexis Tsipras said not only do I not regret but I am proud of our government. This is the dipole and the axis around which the political confrontation will move» he added.
Regarding SYRIZA’s period of governance, the former minister noted that «we made mistakes between 2019-23 because we did not respond to what the people who gave us 32% expected us to do. With the sweet defeat of 2019 we also received a message that we are the alternative pole but also that we should organize as such. And we didn’t do it. We didn’t open up to the world, which was giving us this political influence, we didn’t make it part of our organized effort. We didn’t integrate it into the faction. We didn’t look at our party having the influence that a governing party should have in intermediate institutions of social representation, in local government, in trade unions, in commercial associations. That’s why we were defeated. The positive thing is that we found ourselves again (at the event) people and MPs and officials whose paths unfortunately separated after 2023 and the also positive thing that I believe will be recorded is that yesterday’s event will be recorded as a milestone of an overall counteroffensive by our faction».
Pappas then emphasized that «if people who are characterized as centrists and moderates have a bad opinion of our government, this is something we must fight to change. It is possibly also the root of the defeat that came later, the even greater reduction of results. Because unlike New Democracy, we did not enter the battle for the evaluation of 2015-2019 in an organized manner. We did things below the circumstances. New Democracy organized very well its communication, ideological, political forces to slander the achievements of our governance. This was not a battle of historical evaluation, it was a battle for the future».
«When you say you have a good government it means you managed to staff a team that implemented the good things»
To the journalistic comment that the faction was in the… balcony (at Alexis Tsipras’s event, SYRIZA and New Left MPs and officials were placed in the balcony of the «Pallas» theater), Pappas replied that «any attempt to defend our governance also involves the people who implemented policies. When you say you have a good government it means you managed to staff a team that implemented the good things. Tsipras said yesterday that I had the best and most honest government. This is recorded. He said I am proud and I who was a member of it».
When asked if he had an invitation to the event, he replied that «the invitation was open» and continued saying that «the most important thing is that Tsipras is returning to the discussion for the evaluation of his governance. It’s something we delayed doing. It should have been done much earlier. And to go smoothly to the next day – SYRIZA has proposed the formation of a progressive electoral alliance – my opinion is that this congress decision of ours must be implemented in three immediate, quick steps, to avoid mistakes that similar efforts have made internationally: Manifesto, program and election of a leader, that is, a prime ministerial candidate by the people».
«The major issue is the removal of the Mitsotakis government»
When asked if what he describes should be done in consultation with Tsipras, he replied: «In consultation with everyone. I cannot conceive that in an effort of broader understanding – moreover he reflected it in his statement at a difficult moment, the moment of his resignation from Parliament, personally I think his resignation from Parliament was wrong. But even in that statement he expressed his expectation for unification, the recomposition of forces, the electoral alliance. As a SYRIZA official, I tell you that we are addressing even people we have never met. And we have gone through very difficult confrontational periods. But now we believe there is something major. And the major issue is the removal of the Mitsotakis government and the country’s turn to a progressive path».
Regarding Tsipras’s remarks that the parties of the center-left have closed their cycle, he said that «the processes of understanding and unification must be accelerated. How can this be done: If we implement what we say declaratively. I have been saying for a very long time that there must be cooperation. For this to become credible, it must be reflected on paper, which will be the political commitment that we will go together to the elections. This paper on a second level should produce the basic programmatic directions and on a third level, in order not to make the mistakes of the big ones, to ask the people – Alexis Tsipras also said it – who should be the prime ministerial candidate. He said there should be no reserves for the first position. So why not primary elections for the ballots of the unified, large democratic electoral alliance that we will build. This is a qualitative difference. The people whom we have hurt, whom we have saddened with the splits, to give them the opportunity to come to a ballot box and evaluate everyone and decide the arrangement of forces. I believe it will be a revitalizing process that will give impetus».
When asked if Konstantopoulou or Varoufakis would participate in this call, the SYRIZA MP replied that «the country needs a progressive turn that will not put its geopolitical orientation to the test. Varoufakis together with Konstantopoulou and Lafazanis questioned the strategic choice of the agreement that was made in August 2015. They didn’t want any agreement. This is a cohesive, distinct, clear political choice. It is a different strategy which obviously cannot have common ground. Especially since instead of the past disagreements being blunted, they seem to be deepening. The rhetoric used by Konstantopoulou and Varoufakis against our government, against this strategy, for the country to hold on and give the battle to get out of the Memoranda, is very difficult. But the forces that self-determine in the progressive space which are both organized and other scattered and personalities and small groupings can converge on this plan».
«There must be courage and honesty: Manifesto, program, election of leader»
When asked if he disagrees with Tsipras’s assessments that SYRIZA’s cycle has closed, he pointed out that «at this moment there is the following fact. It is very difficult for anyone to convince a leftist and progressive citizen that any of the parties alone can regain such momentum that would put it on the path to power. Given this, I think there must be courage from all sides and transcendence. Mainly, we must not think for a moment that our own past concerns the people». To the comment, indeed, that «tango takes two, you are all of you and Tsipras, the two of course», he replied that «it will be a very beautiful Ikarian dance that needs many people, it won’t be tango».
Regarding the absence from Tsipras’s event for his book of Pavlos Polakis and Gavriil Sakellaridis, he replied that «I felt very good because I saw people whose paths have separated in the last two years, this is also a measure of responsibility of Alexis Tsipras and all of us for how this world that has the disposition to journey together again, to give them the opportunity to do so. And there is a way. It’s enough to have courage and honesty: Manifesto, program, election of leader».
«Mitsotakis set up this court»
Pappas also spoke about what Tsipras refers to in his book «Ithaca» regarding the television license tender and his own conviction by the Special Court with a 13-0 majority. «I thought about it too, whether I should participate in the ballots. But those moments were moments of undivided solidarity, determination and faith at all levels of the faction and at a time when Mitsotakis’s conspiracy against me had not been proven, because Mitsotakis set up this court, Klapa and Adelini were promoted because they took this decision that concerned me. I am proud because I brought money to the public sector». «I have denounced it. I am talking about a vulgar give and take between these two ladies, of judicial power and not of Justice, because if they served Justice they would not insult in an abhorrent way the parents of the Tempe victims, telling them they become political pawns».
«Let us reintroduce ourselves», he added and continued: «There was a decision by the judicial power that was against our policy on television licenses. The reality is that you had two ladies who served the top of the Judicial power and the trust of our people in the institution has literally collapsed».
When asked if Tsipras’s references to his role in the television license case saddened him, Pappas noted that «no, it didn’t sadden me. Alexis Tsipras describes exactly what we wanted to do, what we achieved, what went well, what didn’t go well. He takes responsibility himself, which honors him. And I take it, because obviously when you are a minister you implement the government’s directions, but if you don’t like them you go home. It wouldn’t make sense for me to come out and say look, I was following orders. He said we were right, he said the tender was crystal clear, he said we collected 250 million». The SYRIZA MP was also asked about the role of businessman Kalogritsas in the television license case but replied that he would not want to comment.
Nikos Pappas: «The Europeans never had in mind to expel Greece from the euro»
Regarding the difficult moments of negotiations with the troika in 2015 under the SYRIZA-ANEL government, the former minister said that «I will tell you something heretical. I believe that the Europeans never had in mind to expel Greece from the euro. No one. From Schäuble’s mind I publicly submit the view that not only had it passed, but he had organized a plan for our political destruction. If Tsipras in this negotiation had accepted a public property fund based in Belgium or Luxembourg, our government would simply have collapsed. However, revelations have come to light that when there was the peak of the crisis, printed euros were coming by plane. Yes, they wanted under the threat of exit to crush us politically, but they absolutely did not want the country to leave. They wanted obedience».
Regarding Varoufakis’s plan to pay pensioners with coupons, as Tsipras reveals in his book, Pappas states that «we didn’t hear them, no one took them seriously. There was never such a strategy. Tsipras has the majority in Parliament, he has the no in the referendum, why doesn’t he take the country out of the euro. If that was his strategy. Why does he resign and ask the people again if he should proceed given the agreement. So the mistakes and omissions of the first semester, Tsipras and we asked the people to evaluate them and they told us to proceed».
In closing, Pappas, describing the ideal scenario for the future, emphasized that «I would like to be part of an effort that will have a serious chance of winning the elections and for this to happen we need unity in three steps: Manifesto, program, election of leader. The label has less importance than the substance. If we manage to unite forces, this will be a very powerful message, -unless we make some huge communication mistake, the name will play a very small role- that will serve progressive change», he concluded.
